In this “cover-to-cover” interview, book coach Ameesha Green and author Glen John Jones discuss his book Think and Grow Vegan, featured in Sublime Magazine and the Wild Electric Podcast, detailing his 5-step journey to from meat eater to vegan… with the preachy and patronising parts substituted from the menu.
Join book coach Ameesha Green and author Glen John Jones as they discuss his global book Think and Grow Vegan, which details his 5-step journey from meat eater to plant-based, through 5 stages: reducetarian, pescaratian, vegetarian, and mostly vegan.
Glen is a personal trainer and co-founder of Studio 234 with over 15 years’ experience in the fitness industry across some of the most well-known gyms in the UK. He approaches the topics of veganism and publishing from a relatable, down-to-earth perspective, with no patronising or preachy parts on the menu.
Sip on an oat milk latte as you listen to Glen’s self-publishing journey, which led to distributions in all the major UK bookstores, and learn the importance of reading book contracts so you don’t get bit in the butt.
Turn the page (the time-stamp!)
[00:55] How are you feeling now it’s finished?
[01:12] So, what made you want to write a book in the first place?
[02:43] The book is about five stages from meat-eater to vegan.
[09:01] Do you think you’ll be writing more books? Did you enjoy the experience?
[12:25] How did you get your self-published book into bookstores?
[15:37] You mentioned that you did end up having some problems with that distributor model eventually, so what advice would you have for authors that decide to go down that path?
[24:50] What’s that golden nugget advice to give to aspiring authors?
Buy the book: Think and Grow Vegan by Glen John Jones
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TOPICS COVERED IN THIS EPISODE INCLUDE:
Nonfiction
Self-publishing
The self-publishing process
Writing your first book
Creativity
Vegans
Plant-based diet
Veganism
Veganuary
Book pitching
Book contracts
Bookstore distribution rights
Ameesha:
Welcome to Better Shelves, the podcast from The Book Shelf Ltd. We help aspiring authors to create aspiring nonfiction books. We’re based in Birmingham, but we work with authors across the globe, and our mission is to make the world a better place through books.
Hi Glen, thanks for joining us today! So, I just thought we could talk a little bit about your book which you published last year. So, if you just want to tell us a little bit about what the book is about and what made you write it.
Glen:
Yeah, the book is called Think and Grow Vegan and the subtitle and subject is: how to gradually adopt a plant-based diet in five stages with confidence. And of course, you helped me edit it, so that was a big part of it. Had you not got on board, we probably wouldn't have gotten to that point where it was finished, to be honest with you. I think when I first came to you, it was an absolute mess and you managed to get it down from something like four/five hundred pages of just gibberish down to around 250. So, you work wonders!
Ameesha:
Yeah! I forgot it was that long at the beginning but it was, wasn't it?
Glen:
It was really long, and it's been really cool. I'm glad to have got it done and it took a lot longer for me to do than most people, I'd say. But I really enjoyed it, and I'm really glad I’ve done it. Yeah, I’ve got a few things to help out everyone else that's maybe doing it.
Ameesha:
Awesome! So, what made you want to write a book in the first place? What do you do for your day job, and what made you think having a book would be a good thing to supplement that with?
Glen:
On a day-to-day basis, I’m a personal trainer and I run a studio with my friend in my local area. I also have an interesting triathlon, so my time is quite short anyway. So, when the idea to write a book came around I thought: “Right, I don’t know how I’m going to fit this in with time.” But it actually became something that worked out alright with everything else because, of course, it's the polar opposite. So physically, it was a nice rest from my normal day-to-day. Mentally? Maybe not, because you still have to work and think. But the idea - not of this specific subject, I didn't actually know what I wanted to write a book about in the beginning - but the idea was very strange how it came to me, and I still don't know how, or why, I wanted to write a book. It just happened. I was travelling and I didn't have that kind of eureka moment. I wouldn't say that I was finding myself or something, but when I came home, I literally just knew that I was going to write a book - very strange - and not about the travelling, and not about anything that I'd learned while I was travelling. I just knew that I was going to write a book someday, and that's how it all started, really.
Ameesha:
Yeah, that's pretty cool! I went travelling for a year and I did not come back thinking that I was going to write a book, so I'm quite impressed about that!
Glen:
Like I say, it's got no affiliation to any experience that I had while I was away, at all. I can't explain it. It seemed to happen after that so I kind of conflated the two.
Ameesha:
Yeah, so, the book is about your five stages of going from meat-eater to vegan, right?
Glen:
Yes.
Ameesha:
So, it kind of came from your personal experiences of that journey.
Glen:
Yeah. I used to be an avid meat-eater. Well, I've pretty much been in the fitness industry my whole adult life, so since I was about 18, so about 13 years - and the usual process for most young guys when they get into the industry is they're into lifting weights and looking in the mirror and stuff like that. I went down that road and I used to just eat loads of meat; the food prep, chicken breast, the chicken thighs in lunchboxes, the beef and eggs for breakfast, you name it, and then I had this kind of weird experience where I just couldn't eat meat one day. I was just eating meat and I just couldn't chew it. It was bacon, which I'd always loved. Most people do. I just couldn't finish it. All of a sudden, it was a bit of a sequence of events that started to happen to all different types of meat, and then around that time, I started to think, “Well, I've got this solid background in knowledge and fitness and it would probably be quite interesting to maybe document this.” Not in the form of a blog, but in the form of a book, which kind of brought in a little bit more information and a way of doing things. So, that was where the structure of the book came from. Then, I guess, the purpose of knowing I was going to write a book, and all of a sudden having an idea of what it was going to be about came in, just when I couldn't finish my meal that one day really. Funny how things come along like that.
Ameesha:
I think actually having that personal story is really important in books. There are so many books out there on every topic, it's pretty difficult to get a unique concept these days. But actually, so much of it is about your personal story and that journey you went on and showing people that it is possible. I think that a lot of people probably don't realise they can go from meat-eater to vegan in five stages or stock of stages.
Glen:
I've learned over the years with clients that if you jump into things and you do too much too soon, quite often you rebound the other way. All through the research of getting together for the book, funnily enough - one of the real benefits of writing the book is that I started to understand certain statistics and started to look into surveys and polls and see other people's experiences. So many people say that even if they tried to go vegan and it didn't work out, they would try again. And then, one of the main reasons they said they couldn't stick to it was because they were trying to be too pure. So all of these things I learned while trying to write the book are what got me to, basically, doing it in a healthier process, which physically and mentally just seemed to be a lot better for me. I've been one of those people who've been able to stick to it in all situations and still feel really good. I don't really feel any different, I just feel a bit lighter on my feet and I've lost a bit of the bulk and all the rest of it. That goes hand-in-hand with other goals. But the five stages I went through, meat-eater to pescetarian, that's where you drop your meat, but you eat fish. Then vegetarian, of course, you get rid of the fish and you're left with the animal products, and vegetables. Mostly vegan, where you're actively trying to go vegan but you're not kicking yourself if you do eat cheese or a bit of milk here and there, and then of course, vegan. So, all of this is highlighted in the book and it's how I did it.
Ameesha:
I think people can use that, can’t they as a process that they can follow over a lengthy period of time if they wanted to?
There's absolutely no time limit on it and I really wanted it to be, the message of the book to be, inclusive. I wanted it to be for pretty much everybody who had the interest in maybe eating less meat and then, who are potentially interested in, if they wanted to, taking it further if they can. I see that a lot, where people are trying to reduce their meat intake these days. So, I thought right, if they do get that inkling that maybe they want to take it a little further after they have reduced their meat intake, how can I highlight this to people in a way where it's still healthy for them to keep going to a full plant-based if they wanted to? The whole time-frame and removing the pressures, expectations, and typical vegan message that some people think about being extreme – get rid of all that and appeal to as many people who are trying to reduce their meat intake as possible.
Ameesha:
That's what I love about the book, actually, that you're so straight talking and you're not one of these pious kind-of people that are typically associated with being a vegan. It's nice to get that straight-talking, swearing, and brutally honest approach. It's really funny as well, and I don't think you often get that in books on this subject.
Glen:
No, there's definitely- like when you look at the content on social media, some people are just amazing at it. Particularly younger generations, they're just incredible at cooking the most basic meal in the world and making it look amazing, so I know that's appealing to a lot of people, getting them interested in the diet. But there is, of course, the day-to-day things that you kind of have to learn, in a sense, when you reduce your meat intake. For example, you do miss out on certain nutrients. So, I was keen to highlight that in the book, but not overwhelm people with environmental statistics that are really deep. I do touch on everything, but just on a very pub-chat level, and I think that's important.
Ameesha:
Good description!
Glen:
I feel like whatever comes up, I'd like people to remember it in a pub quiz. If they get asked that question in a pub quiz, would they remember it? That's the level of information in the book, and like I said, in the beginning there, you really helped me to bring that out.
Ameesha:
Thanks, I'm glad you found it useful! I feel like I learned a lot as well, and this is one of the awesome things about my job, is that I learn from every book. It's a win-win.
Glen:
Yeah, writing the book was a real eye-opener for me as well. It challenged a lot of my beliefs I had from being in the fitness industry for so long and... Not being anti-vegan, but just not really giving it a chance. So it was challenging a lot of what I had learned for up to eight years or so. That I’ve been doing things my whole life a certain way and I'd been in this industry for, say, eight years when I started to go plant-based, and it challenged everything that I already knew. This isn't just some pseudo-science stuff, you know looking at all these different things and trialling it myself. Had I not written the book, I'd not have learned that level of information. So the process was better than- it was important to actually write it very thoroughly, because you just learn so much.
Ameesha:
I like that you did the kind of mythbusting stuff as well. Some of that is so mainstream - these beliefs that people have - that it's almost not questioned, so I like that you go into the science for some of these things. The one that I remember is the one about the teeth!
Glen:
Oh, yeah!
Ameesha:
I think that's a really common thing, that's a really common argument isn't it?
Glen:
Yeah, people look at your teeth and they say, “Well, certain animals have this and we have these and blah blah blah”. But I feel like humans shouldn't really be compared to animals that much, to be honest. I know that we have certain natures but I do think that we're very different. First of all, we stand up, so that's number one! I feel like there's so many people looking for these quick, simple kinds of answers to why we do things, but don't ever question it. I was hoping that the book would, without trying to convince people how to think or coerce people, maybe just giving two sides of the coin to most of these kinds of arguments that people bring forward about why the vegan diet is wrong or bad or whatever.
Ameesha:
Definitely. Do you think you'll be writing more books then? Did you enjoy this experience enough to do it again?
Glen:
Well, naturally I enjoyed writing it. Then I have enjoyed the other side to it and the reason for that is that my life became quite straightforward because in my diary over the course of the week you try to make yourself busy and proactive but I'd have clients, certain other things, life stuff and I'd have training and all the rest of it, and then any other time would literally be book writing. So I could have a two-hour or one-hour or three-hour slot and it would just be book writing. So for the course of three years, or however long it took me to do this because I was doing other things, I'd always know what I was doing when I'd done everything else. It was kind of like a routine and when I'd finished writing the book and all then, all of a sudden I had to think about stuff to do again, outside, I found that quite uncomfortable for a while. It was really weird!
Ameesha:
That's quite cool, yeah. I think most people struggle to find the time to write, so it's quite nice that you found that approach.
Glen:
When I first started writing it, I have to say that, unless I had a whole day, I would probably sometimes go 'Ugh!' and it would go on for another week. Then it got to the point where I kept narrowing it down and one day I was listening to an audiobook and I heard this quote: "Reasonable time is enough time." And that really kind of kicked me up the bum a bit because I thought why do I have to feel like I need four hours to do this? Why don't I just smash out an hour or two hours just as quickly as I can? And you still get somewhere, it all adds up. That was really important.
As far as writing another book goes... Probably not for a while. But I have done an eBook off the back of this and it's on Amazon Kindle now, and I recorded the audiobook which was something I'd always wanted to do as well. And I've just brought out an eBook, which is on Kindle, which is a acomplement to the main book, so I'm kind of more interested in building more things off of this, because I do feel like it is very- can help a lot of people. So I'm just building off side things – focusing on more individual topics, such as the nutrition, and finding ways to get the message to people where they're more likely to consume it. Some people don't read but they'll listen, some people don't wanna buy books but they'll buy a Kindle because they just prefer to be on their phone. So that's where we're at with it at the moment.
Ameesha:
Awesome, well, I hope that goes well and congrats on your audiobook, that's really cool!
Glen:
That was cool, that was good! It's so much easier reading it than writing it. But it was a good experience.
Ameesha:
That's really cool, well done. What was your most impressive moment? When did you feel the happiest with it in the writing or the publishing?
Glen:
There were a lot of moments when you're writing and of course you get writer's block and certain things just don't seem to be working, and you'll just overcome that. You'll be in the shower or going for a walk and then, all of a sudden you just know how to get around that. Those moments while writing it were really good. That would make my day, put a spring in my step. Because there's many of them! If you're writing a book that's 250 pages, there's many times but there's so much going on and it's like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes. When you've actually got the full book and you're trying to make sense of a full book - and that's the problem I had when I first came to you - it's like finding a needle in a haystack; it's a lot of work. But on the other side of it of course, when the books first arrived at my house, I'd got a certain amount of promotional books, and I was holding it and I couldn't believe it really. That was a really, really cool feeling. Walking into Waterstones in Trafalgar Square and seeing it there, that was another moment where I thought, 'This is cool.' I don't know if this is cheating but I bought it, I bought one.
Ameesha:
No you've got to! You've gotta buy a copy of your own book. Did you go to the till and say "Oh, would you like me to sign a copy for you?"
Glen:
I actually asked for the copy as well. I said, "Have you got Think and Grow Vegan by Glen John Jones?" And then they type it in and that was a really cool moment for sure.
Ameesha:
Did you tell them it was you?
Glen:
No, no. Those three moments were probably the most celebrated times I think.
Ameesha:
Seeing your book in Waterstones I think that's the dream for most authors, isn't it? Especially with self-publishing, you are the only self-published author I know that's managed to achieve that. I think it's one of the reasons why people still go for traditional publishing because they want to walk into a bookshop and see their book in there, and it's pretty difficult to achieve that with self-publishing. So how did you get that to happen?
Glen:
So that was the initial goal when I thought about writing a book way back when. I always thought Waterstones, they're the biggest in this country and that's where I'd want it to be, you know. It wasn’t until I started looking into that more that I realised how deep it goes. There's so many bookstores and distributors and all the rest of it. The way that I got into that situation was— the guy that designed the book, my friend Radim Malinic, he's a graphic designer and he's wrote a book on branding, he's written a book on how to get ideas and how to look after yourself better as a graphic designer sitting at a desk all day, dealing with clients, mindfulness, going outside, breathing, and just certain tips. He's written a few books and through his journey which has been going on for four or five years, he's learned that originally he was doing everything for himself, but because he's amazing at the branding and marketing side of things — that's what he does for a living — he was able to get his book out there good enough that he was able to present it to a distributor that was going to buy multiple copies of his book and get it in all the shops and they pick and post it. I won't name-drop them, so he got with them and then, he was already in there and he's doing very well. He's brought out three or four books since he's been with them because it's so much easier because they’re dealing with a lot of the time consuming stuff, so he's focusing on adverts and all the rest of it. He knew that I was writing my book and he had mentioned it to them and then through that, we got a meeting together. They got hold of the original draft and then they said: "We really like the book, we do think there's a lot of interest in this and we could actually get this in a shop and sell lots of copies, but we need a business proposal from you." By the way, I'm making it sound like this happened really fast, but it took ages to get to this stage. I did a business proposal, and it took me about two weeks to put together, just highlighting what I wanted to do and where it was all going to go, and then I sent that to them. Through that they, basically, took it on and then they were responsible for the storage, the picking, the posting, they managed an Amazon account, they got it in Foils, Waterstones, WHSmith. They got it with international distributors and international shops, so somewhere in Poland or South Africa or New Zealand could go on one of their websites, they see my book, order it — whether they'd already bought copies or they then order it in — and then it goes to them. So, it just opened everything up really. That's where it all came from, and I don't know how I'd have got to that point had I not have done that, but obviously they have all the connections and hook-ups. But it was nice because they kind of obviously took the reins and they did all the stuff which is very time-consuming. I mean, my friend who's done both now, doing it on his own and with them, he swears by having a distributor. As my time's gone by, I don't swear by it, for different reasons. But I guess it's horses for courses.
Ameesha:
You mentioned that you did end up having some problems with that distributor model eventually, so what advice would you have for authors that decide to go down that path?
Glen:
Essentially, you and I we’re talking now, it's the start of 2021 and we've just been through 2020 which has turned everything upside down, so it was a bit of a bad year anyway. I didn't have much mojo with the book to be honest with you. I had a lot of stuff going on. Personal stuff, work stuff, you name it and the book was a bit of an afterthought. It always will be something that I do on the side, it's never going to be my main thing, just because of what I do for a living basically. Well, who knows! Might one day become a crazy best-seller or something, but I mean it's likely to not be like that. It's not the main breadwinner, let's put it that way, in the house. Because of that, I guess they kind of left me for a year or so, and then they got in touch and said the problems they've been having with their business and stuff and I got to a situation where they were having to buy back stock that they'd sold to different bookstores which they'd already sold to them. It was part of contracts and clauses, you name it, how they actually sell the books in the first place that they had to actually buy them back because these companies are either closing down or they're not selling enough or whatever. So they had to buy them back and, then, I've got the bill for that where I've had to pay for that from them. It got to the point where I was getting a little bit fed up with not knowing where these books are coming from, not knowing other information in the build-up to it, probably didn't bank on this. It's probably somewhere in the contract that I've gone through with them that this is how it is, but it kind-of just took me unexpected and I decided to get out of the contract. I had to pay to get out of the contract and now I've had my books now shipped. I've ended up with a lot of books here. Not at my house, but elsewhere. Which I'll now have to do everything with. Basically, it means I have overheads with storage and all the rest of it. Whereas before that was an inviting prospect because they were taking care of that side of things, now I have to deal with it all. Whereas if I'd not gone with them in the first place, and now we're talking hindsight, I would have just started very lean, and even in a very bad year with everything that's happened I wouldn't have been in a situation now where I have complete responsibility for thousands of books for example.
Ameesha:
So I guess, reading that contract in the beginning is really important. Even though we couldn't have foreseen that the bookshops would close and that you'd have to buy those books back, it's important to know that there's a potential for that to happen, especially if it's going to cost you a lot of money, or you're going to lose all of those books. People do need to be aware of that.
Glen:
Yeah, it's a weird one because I don't really want to bad mouth them in a sense and sound as if I come across as though I'm complaining because they— without them I wouldn't have had that initial surge where I thought, 'Oh my God, I've made it, this is crazy. This never happens to anyone!' There are a lot of people who do very well who are prolific with their marketing, their advertising and they just do the backend stuff. But of course in a situation like what's happened, which now can happen at any time, it just seems more appealing to be leaner and have a bit more control over your books. The other thing that is quite upsetting now that it's gotten to this stage, for me, is — I'm not bad mouthing them or the experience of writing a book—but I wasn't able to see who bought my book. Personally, I would like to thank everyone and maybe write them a message saying 'Thank you so much for buying the book, could you leave a review?' and that kind of thing. But because it was handled by a third party I never got to see where the books were going to. I bumped into a couple of people asking: "How's your book going?", "Yeah, it's going alright thanks, blah blah blah. Bit quiet this year...", "Oh, I've bought two books!", "Did you?!", "Oh yeah, I bought one for myself and one for my friend". And you just didn't know this, so people have been supporting you and you haven't been able to directly thank them. You could do a little shoutout on Instagram to thanks so much everyone but for that real touch which I'd like to do, maybe coming from my background in personal training that's more what I like to do. But I still don't know whose bought it. That to me now is quite frustrating because I can't directly thank people and ask them to review it and give me feedback.
Ameesha:
Yeah, I guess that's a shame that with that sort of model, you'll never know who bought the book. I guess there are pros and cons of everything. With traditional and self publishing there are pros and cons with print-on-demand and getting a distributor – there are pros and cons of that. So it's knowing what's the most important to you and what you want to get out of it and which process is better for you.
Glen:
Yeah absolutely. It just depends, in 2019 the route I went down was literally like the holy grail. And then obviously it's all flipped on its head. So like you say, pros and cons, big time. I'm not prolific— I'm not active on social media and all the rest of it so that's a big flaw on my part. So if you're someone that has that, I'm sure that the distributor route would work amazing.
Ameesha:
Yeah, I mean, a lot of it now is how big your audience is to start with, making sure you have that social media following and telling people about the book months before you even publish it. I don't think a lot of authors realise how important that is. They recommend you start marketing three months before you publish the book, but actually, a lot of people don't start until it's already out there.
Glen:
That was what I believed, to be honest with you. I listened to an author way back and he had written a book and he was talking about how it had been five years since he wrote his book, and he now— over the years I've watched his social media following grow from something like 70,000 to 200,000. Now he's up to like 350,000 and I listened to one of his podcasts once and he said that his book has sold more every single year over the course of five years. I looked at that as a way of thinking I don't wanna put myself out there, I find it quite unnatural anyway, that side of it. I know the world is going that way, but you kind of have to embrace that. I didn't do that and my way around that, I thought I'll do it when the book's done. At that point, it's not that it's too late, it's just that you have to be constantly doing that in order to replicate what he did for five years compounding, getting better every single time. I tried to do it the other way around, putting myself out there when the book is out there. But it doesn't necessarily work like that and as a result of it, I haven't necessarily grown my following or anything in the past year or so but like I say I'm not very active on it [social media] at the moment, so hopefully it'll come back.
Ameesha:
Same here really. Social media is one of those things, I think, where you either love it or hate it. I'm not comfortable putting myself out there either, so I can understand why a lot of authors don't want to and you know, they want the book to speak for itself. But because people buy into people, you have to put yourself out there. They're not just buying a book and a cool cover, they're buying into who that author is and their story. If they don't know who that person is, then what are they buying into?
Glen:
Absolutely. Definitely recommend that. But that being said, off the back of it I have done a lot of podcasts and it's almost like having a business card— I was trying to explain this to someone about the book and stuff. Even if, say for example, last year wasn't a great year for promoting it for other reasons, so I was happy to write last year off, to be honest with you.
So that's why the distributor thing that came along was a bit of a shock to me because it was like, “I don't really need this now.” Even though that was going on, I was still getting offers to do podcasts, I was still getting magazine features and different features on websites and people tagging me in stuff. People were doing Instagram stories and mentioning my name or my book, without me asking. Once you have put it out there, you do still get things coming back to you, but the more you put into it, the more you get back.
Ameesha:
Yeah. It sounds like you've had some benefits from it, aside from the obvious one. People think that they're just going to put a book out there and it's going to make them loads of money, but in reality it often doesn't work that way, unless you wrote Fifty Shades of Grey. Most authors don't make a huge amount of money from their books, but they do open up other opportunities. Like you said, it is a big business card, isn't it? It's about opening doors and getting your name out there.
Glen:
Absolutely. I've gone through the motions, the actual purpose of the book has changed the intent and what I want to achieve and how I wanna help people has changed maybe three times since the book came out. So, I had this big plan when it came out, and I've changed it about three times. And that's not just because of last year, that's just how it's gone. I get stuff sent to me sometimes, like some free bars or something or stuff like that, and that would never have happened without the book. It is cool. And as a result of it, I've met these guys who run a rugby team and through that I've met loads of friends, we're all like minded and that just got my foot in the door to have these friends and meet these people. I'd have never met them if it wasn't for that. That's not financial, but it is very social and just very good for the mindset.
Ameesha:
That's really a really nice, unexpected benefit. It's one that I understand because I've ended up becoming friends with some of the authors I've worked with and you wouldn't necessarily think you're going to be mates with these people. But it does open up unexpected opportunities or friendships. I think it is nice, like you said, you tend to find like-minded people through books.
Glen:
It's nice to help people as well, For us to have this conversation, and whoever's listening to this, of course, I hope they don't think I'm moaning or getting a downer because there's been a lot more good than there has been bad, that's just what's come along recently for me. But there's a lot more good in it than there is bad. You know, I was just doing a podcast with someone maybe a couple of days ago and they were asking me about— they're doing a book, so when we finished our conversation and they're asking me these questions and I'm just so happy to be able to help people and give them these links or give them a little bit of advice. Maybe not about writing the book, but more about, you know, what to do after and who to speak to. You're one of the names that I, obviously, put out there. It's very important actually, having that conversational tone that you were able to help put in the book. It's just stuff like that, having the right editor on board is super important.
Ameesha:
On that note, if you had one piece of golden nugget advice to give to aspiring authors, what would it be?
Glen:
It would literally be, just write it! Because you can have all of these plans in place, and if you go into it knowing that you're not going to be a multimillionaire, then you'll be fine. If you go into it thinking that your life – you're going to have this secondary income where you're smashing life and all the rest of it, then it's a little bit less likely. So, if you have less expectation and just write because you want to write, and you have a plan about what you want the book- I've seen certain ways that people structure and you've got to know what it's about, you’ve got to what you're writing about and all this different sort of stuff. I think that's super important, but you can have all of these plans, but until you execute it, you've got nothing. Even if it does come out as 400 pages of gibberish like mine, then there are professionals and experts out there, like you, that can help sort that out a little bit. I think that's it, just write it. Just write what you want to write, get whatever's in your brain out and then, just, work it out from there. If it's good, you look at it and you go "Bloody hell!" and you've got the new Harry Potter, then well done, speak to some other people. But yeah, that's what I'd say, just write.
Ameesha:
I think that's really important, there are so many people that are like, "I've got a great idea for a book!" and they never actually write it. They say everybody's got a book in them, don’t they? But I wonder how many people actually get that out onto paper.
Glen:
And also, if you've got a book – I had all these plans when I started out about what I was going to do. I was going to build this big ecosystem of different things that are all attached to the book as a way of bringing more people's eyes to the book, because I believe that book can help a lot of people. So I'm trying so many different ways, of different products. But you don't have to think like that, that's just an extra, kind-of, thing that I put onto myself but you don't need to do that at all. Like I was saying in the beginning, I really enjoyed the process of writing a book. Really, really enjoyed it. I loved having that downtime between work —you have to use your brain a lot — but I loved having that and it kind of dictated what you are doing for that amount of time, and it's nice. You get in your own head, you learn loads, it's like doing your own intensive course, really, on a subject you've chosen. But lowering expectations is the way to go in my opinion. If I could go back in time, and not have as much pressure from an early point, which I did when it got out there so quickly, that would be amazing.
Ameesha:
Thanks for chatting today as well, it's been really interesting to hear about your insights, especially because it's been a while since you published and you've obviously learned a lot in that time. So, yeah, thanks for chatting.
Glen:
It's been brilliant to catch up! It's weird because the book has been out for a year and a half now, but it feels like it's only been out for six months because of last year so it's very strange. But it's nice because it feels like you're starting wherever you are now. That's the thing with the book, you always just feel like you're starting wherever you are, so it's good.
Ameesha:
Good luck with future plans, and hopefully things will pick up with your PT-ing as well, and gyms will reopen and real life will come back. Thanks very much Glen!
Glen:
Thanks Ameesha!
Ameesha:
We can’t wait for you to join us as we talk more about writing, publishing, and self-improvement on this podcast. And we’d love to hear from you! What tips would you find useful? What questions do you need answered?
You can find us on our website, Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter @thebookshelf.ltd. Send us your questions via social media! We’d love to hear from you.
In the next chapter, we’ll be speaking to the author of The Connection Blueprint, Debbie Waggoner about spiral binding, printing, and more. So, stay tuned!
The music featured in today’s episode is ‘Set Free’ by Katie Gray, which you can find on Apple Music and Spotify.
Thanks for listening to the Better Shelves podcast, we’ll see you in the next chapter!